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So You Want to Breed A Litter?

Discuss issues regarding the breeding and whelping of sled dogs.

So You Want to Breed A Litter?

by Christian on January 2, 2008 - 6:52 am

Recently I published an article written by Laurie Niedermayer (who participates on the boards), and the troubles/complications people should consider before breeding. I would like to hear your thoughts and analysis on her article. Where do you stand, and why? Do you agree, or disagree?

Following is her article:

Why? What are your motivations? Want to let the kids have a natural experience, think its best for your couch potato? Think you’re doing the dog a favor by breeding a litter or 2 or 10 before spaying? Because your dog is so sweet and everybody wants a pup from him/her? Because you want to make money? Because you want to buy that big screen TV? Or Computer? Or?

If you are breeding dogs just to sell to pet homes - no matter what your motivation is - you are a puppy mill.

There are a lot of individuals who jump up & down and castigate others for being a puppy mill and justify their actions by being self appointed saints - saying only they breed good dogs, only they do the health checks, they sell only to ‘approved homes’ and insist on spaying and neutering. These are the people who are “Backyard breeders“. Just because their animals are kept in clean situations does not mean they are any better than any puppy mill. Case in point - if you have a couple of dogs and have bred more than one litter per year and been in the sport/breed less than 5 years - YOU really need to check your motivation for doing so - because you are a fine line/step away from being a puppy mill. Let those who live in glass houses not cast the first stone.

Why?

Breeding as it pertains to the sport of dogs - is supposed to be done to IMPROVE the breed, or in the case of the hybrid performance dogs - to improve performance/speed - not just because you have a nice dog or for any of the above reasons.

If you are not actively pursuing working your dog - in either a specialized aspect or combination of conformation sports, and whatever the dog/breed was originally bred for - you probably should not be breeding. In the case of this writers experience we will be dealing with the over breeding of sled dogs. No matter the breed.

If you are a recreational ‘musher’ who spends weekends with your dog playing around - and then the rest of the time the dog hangs out at the house, cuddles, sleeps on the bed, has toys, grooming and socialization out the wazoo- then congratulations - you are exactly the kind of pet home I would want for my pups. But are you the kind of home I want to have breeding my dogs? Not on your life.

Why?

Chances are you haven’t been involved with the breed for very long. You are an instant expert - know all there is to know about the sport, the breed etc and you have been hanging out in your little corner of the world for less than 5 years. You may have lucked out and found a decent mentor - most likely not. You may or may not have ever followed the racing or show or obedience circuit. You have a nice dog. That’s it. Sure - you may have purchased or been given your first dog by a respectable breeder, you may even have a show title on him or her. Heck - anyone can have their dogs eyes and hips certified.

Does that mean you should breed it?

Without being proven? In my opinion no. I would ask for opinions from other breeders that I respect and trust, I would want to see the dog working under harness - and not just for a few miles playing around - I am talking about 30 - 40 km per day runs, not 2 or 3 mile jaunts. Structural problems show up after consistent 10 mile runs. You should want to see several conformation show titles and preferably even obedience titles on several of the dogs from any kennel or on your own dogs first - before even considering a breeding.

Why?

This discussion has been forefront in several prominent breeders/rescue organizations I have been involved with over the last few months. The one thing that comes up consistently is the why of breeding. Why are so many novices jumping on the “I am a reputable breeder bandwagon?”

The general consensus from those who have been around for a long time - is that there is a general lack of ’KNOWING’ in the dog sport world of today.

If you are breeding dogs and you have less than five years experience - you lack the knowledge that really working and training them is all about. You lack the knowledge of reading and recognizing pedigrees and health issues pertaining to each bloodline. You lack the knowledge of recognizing a dog’s faults & strengths.

If you are breeding for performance - can you honestly say that you have spent the months, weeks, days & hours working with your dogs. Recognizing structural inadequacies, temperament issues and stresses that actively working your dogs and racing bring about. Have you ever actually tested your dogs and yourself against other teams of dogs to see whether or not you really have good animals to even begin considering breeding? Chances are you haven’t.

Every day rescue groups are bombarded with requests to take on someone else’s problem. The dog escapes, the dog kills cats/chickens etc. The dog is aggressive, the dog doesn’t pull. The dog is defective for whatever reason. The reality is that the people who bought the dog probably got it from someone like you - who has a flowery contract, screens the prospective puppy person, says all the right things, and means well - but doesn’t really GET it.

This may seem harsh and judgmental - but needs to be said. For the sake of the dogs.

Before jumping up and down and getting on the holier than thou bandwagon and wanting to know how I can say such things… remember …

I am only asking you to really examine your motivations for why you breed.

How many hours have YOU personally spent going to shelters, working with animal rescue, taking on fostering of unwanted sled dogs, retraining and re-homing them? How many of those dogs needing rescue have you taken on and spent months working with to try to save and then ultimately have to give in the fight and have the animal put down? How many of you have held a dog in need as it is being administered the final shot that will bring it respite? How many of you have spent hours cuddling and crying with/over an abused animal to try to gain it’s trust. How many of you have ever actually taken back a dog of your breeding after it has been turned in to rescue or the local SPCA?

So unless you are actively trying to improve the breed, not breeding because you have nice/beautiful dogs or want to sell puppies, unless you are actively working them and testing them against others in your specified field - do the dogs and the rescue organizations a huge favor - don’t breed.

Even really experienced breeders are sometimes caught by the lies of others in pursuit of some trait or coat color or something they want.

To those who would still like to be breeders: Find a true mentor in the breed, study at their feet, take their advice and learn from their wisdom in the hopes that if you are intent on doing this at least some mistakes can be avoided.

TEMPERAMENT

If you are breeding to improve you will want to keep your best (Sled, Show, Obedience, Agility, Herding etc, Dog)

What then are you passing on to others? If most of what you sell goes out to the general population, how will they fit in? Too many never think if it will be the correct situation for that particular dog.

Very recently someone I know got a new pup, her third Siberian, just for a pet. The comments were, "If I was not educated in this breed this dog would have been gone long ago, and likely turned up in rescue!" Even if the home checks are done, is this the right dog for the home.

People who breed to improve are on the right track but if they can't keep all that they breed, they should breed less.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, dog harness in one hand, duct tape in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming...“Wow---what a ride”

Christian
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by Christian on January 2, 2008 - 7:03 am

Personally, I agree that people in general should consider their knowledge/skills before breeding dogs. Yes, we all know that some make money by selling their dogs - but this usually can only offset the costs ALREADY spent on the dogs.

And I believe that those dogs better be GOOD dogs - or else that breeding pair isn't going to perpetuate the breed.

I have to deal with these issues on a regular basis with family members who consistently talk about breeding their dogs for resale - not to keep. And what makes matters worse is that their breeding pair is absolutely pathetic. One is purebred Chihuahua, and the other is a mix. Why produce more of these dogs when there are already plenty out there? And to breed the dogs just to try and make quick cash just really gets under my skin...And for icing on the cake - they know absolutely nothing about canine medicine, breeding, and husbandry. I find it irresponsible of them to consider breeding dogs when they don't know the fundamentals of the project at hand.

With this topic there are a lot of variables. Whether you are purely selling dogs, whether the dogs will be mainly kept for yourself and your team, etc...So I think with every situation, a well thought out assessment should be made.

Whether my thoughts are naive and incorrect, please correct me where you find fallacies in my analysis.

P.S. I don't consider myself ready to breed for MANY years to come. If ever.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, dog harness in one hand, duct tape in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming...“Wow---what a ride”

Christian
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Location: CA, USA

by huskywoman18 on January 2, 2008 - 7:59 am

In my opinion, breeding is a lifestyle, not a hobby. When you breed dogs, you are making a comittment. You are comitting your time, money, effort, and knowledge to the betterment of the (insert breed.) In my view, a quality breeder should only have one litter(two at the tops) for sale each year. Breeding should not be for monetary profit but for the profit of the breed. If a breeder is not taking all aspects into consideration, then he/she is not qualified to be a breeder.

There are so many variables to take into consideration before breeding. You should, as Ms. Niedermayer says, know the breed very well before even considering breeding. You should know what the breed was intended for and should be active in that aspect. In the case of Siberian Huskies, I think you should be active in mushing in order to breed them. Since they were bred as sled dogs, only a musher will successfully be able to improve upon that breed.

Also, in my opinion, a quality breeder should know as much about the prospective owner as possible. Living conditions, temperment, income, etc. Then they will be able to determine whether their pups will go to a responsible and legitimate home. I think the breeder should also have a health guarantee. Otherwise, I wouldn't believe he was legit. Breeders also should have all the necessary paperwork available to any prospective owner. In other words, he should be willing to share his resume, if you will, with the prospective owner.

Also, I think that a responsible breeder will only give breeding rights to an owner that has been with that breed for many years and has bred before. They, too, should have a resume, if you will, to look over. I think breeding is a serious issue that does not need to be handled lightly. When breeding dogs, you need to also take into consideration, that they may end up in the wrong hands. And, then you will be responsible for the negligence of a poor and innocent dog.

My stanards for a breeder may be harsh but they are only for the wellfare of a dog. I only have these opinions because I care and am concerned for the growing population of unwanted dogs. I also base this upon personal experience. I got Nikaya from a breeder that had no record, asked us no questions, gave no health record, etc. Thankfully, Nikaya turned out perfect and is the dog of my dreams. But, if anything would have happened, I would have been up the creek without a paddle because I took none of this into consideration beforehand. Also, I would have never got Nikaya if he would have been a more responsible breeder. He asked no questions and had no idea into what type of family Nikaya was going. Thankfully, we're not a bad family and have great respect for animals. But, it could have ended up worse for Nikaya. We had no knowledge of Sibes or anything before getting him. Now, thankfully, I have learned so much and hope to get another in the future.

Christian, you have been dealing with dogs a lot longer than I have but in my opinion, your stance on this issue is very wise and I commend you. There was not one part of your post that I disagreed with. Oh yeah, I plan to NEVER breed dogs. I feel as though I will never be qualified enough for that task. Well, I think that's enough for now. Sorry for writing a book.

Wishing the best for the new year,

Caitlyn and Nikaya

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by Christian on January 2, 2008 - 8:11 am

What part of my post did you disagree with Caitlyn? I would love to hear your thoughts. Or were you just stating that you won't ever breed dogs?

I am taking into consideration everyone's stance on this topic, and respect all opinions. This is something that I believe needs discussing.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, dog harness in one hand, duct tape in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming...“Wow---what a ride”

Christian
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by nakitsilik on January 2, 2008 - 2:03 pm

Hi Christian.. since I authored the article - I guess it's no secret where I stand!

I want to make it perfectly clear that the main theme of the article was to get people to re-examine their reasons and motivations for breeding.

Although I am the author - the article was written with the assistance of several long time breeders and mushers of all sledding breeds - not just siberians. It took several months to write because I/we were afraid that a lot of folks would be upset by it. BUT I/we also felt that it was too important to ignore and long over due to be said.

There are no doubt some who think I am being negative or judgemental or harsh - or that I am picking on recreational mushers. That is not - nor ever been the intent of this article.

As with any piece of information that is published/written or discussed - there will always be some who disagree with the contents. If you disagree - that is your right, choice etc. Please don't take it out on the publisher - (in this case on Christian) If you disagree with an article of any kind - then either ignore it or take the message as what it is meant to be - in this case an article that simply asks people to examine their reasons for breeding, rather than to take offense and object to the tone.

I am not now - nor have I ever claimed to know it all. In 16 + years in the breed/sport I have made my mistakes along the way - and I learned from them. My 'motivation' if you will for writing the article was never to slam any individual or group - but simply - that If I can help even one dog out there by making a person re-examine their ressons for breeding and selling puppies - than the heat that I am taking for penning the article will have been worth it.
Laurie Niedermayer
Nakitsilik Siberians &
the Wolfden @ Nakitsilik Outdoors Adventures
http://www.nakitsilik.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nakitsilik/
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by AlaskanKristen on January 2, 2008 - 6:48 pm

I actually did not think that it was a slam against recreational mushers. Even after reading it again, I still agree with it.

I'm not attacking your article in any way, but am just sort of curious. What do you think about working Border collie breeders? I know that they are against AKC, and will kick out any BC that is a champion. Do you think that it's still ok for them to breed even without having conformation titles?
Kristen & The Dogs
2007 Jr. Iditarod
2008 Jr. Cantwell Classic- Red Lantern, Jr. Yukon Quest, and Jr. Iditarod- Red Lantern
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by nakitsilik on January 2, 2008 - 7:07 pm

Hi Kristen - I am not really sure about the politics behind each and every breed.... but the reasons for breeding (or not) remain the same - no matter what breed.. or what disciplines the breed is known for.

And I didn't mean that folks should show their dogs just to make it legit - that is only one avenue of 'proving' your dogs. And one that holds a small part IMHO - but that is a discussion for another day!

Working BC breeders follow - as far as I know - just as strict a training and working ethic as any other group of dog enthusiasts.. so if they are actually working and proving their dogs in the field - why shouldn't they breed.. but again back to the article - for what motivation?
Laurie Niedermayer
Nakitsilik Siberians &
the Wolfden @ Nakitsilik Outdoors Adventures
http://www.nakitsilik.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nakitsilik/
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by huskywoman18 on January 3, 2008 - 2:34 am

Christian,
Some times I have a funny way of wording things. I meant that I agree with your stance on this issue. And, then, not at all relevant, I was saying that personally, I would never breed dogs. Sorry for the confusion.

Caitlyn

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by Christian on January 3, 2008 - 5:10 am

No problem at all.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, dog harness in one hand, duct tape in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming...“Wow---what a ride”

Christian
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Posts: 1919
Joined: July 18, 2006 - 12:19 am
Location: CA, USA

by SnowPack on January 3, 2008 - 9:01 pm

I feel that we can all learn from each other, no matter how long we have loved the breed and the sport.
Dana
[color=blue3s3][i3s3]Happiness is a Siberian Husky in your Cabin![/i3s3][/color3s3]
[size=1173s3]www.snowpacksiberians.com[/size3s3]
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by Christian on January 4, 2008 - 1:25 am

The last couple of posts have been removed as I don't take bashing against other members lightly. I would ask that hurtful comments targeted directly at another person and their methods be stopped.

I would like the topic of breeding discussed, and that the slander of others be kept out.

I will keep this thread open for now, but if it gets out of hand again - it will be deleted.

Thank you for your cooperation,

Cheerful Trails,

Christian
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, dog harness in one hand, duct tape in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming...“Wow---what a ride”

Christian
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Posts: 1919
Joined: July 18, 2006 - 12:19 am
Location: CA, USA


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